meta: supernatural
Mar. 12th, 2008 07:13 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
wellownedbkupDisclaimer: I'm a horrible, horrible fangirl. I'm not rewatching any of the episodes to put out this discussion of the characters of Sam and Dean Winchester, from the show Supernatural. I've never been to a con. I'm bi-bro (hahah). This is just some ramblings--my take on the characters. Feel free to discuss and whatnot below.
For future reference, I do ship J2 and Sam/Dean. But that's not what this is about.
Most of my insight here is coming from comparing and contrasting Faith, All Hell Breaks Loose 1 & 2, What Is And What Should Never Be and Mystery Spot. If you've yet to see these episodes... well, consider this full of spoilers.
Dean Winchester: Woobie... or Dean is more vulnerable than he lets on
Meet Dean Winchester: ladies' man, man's man, man on the prowl. He's good at pretty much everything he does. He can rig up a sophisticated EMF meter from a busted up Walkman. He can keep a '67 Chevy Impala in top condition. He hunts demons and other supernatural creatures that threaten the safety of mankind. He's a smooth talker--able to talk his way into your pants and out of trouble (generally speaking). He's the joking type, the big brother, the soldier.
What we don't always see is how very vulnerable he really is. When we first meet him, we have no idea how often Dean has had to work alone to save the world. Only that John (their dad, for you fresh folks out there.... sheesh) had been gone several days. Presumed KIA, or worse. And we see Dean asking Sam for help for the first time in 2 years of separation. Throughout season 1, we see the cameraderie of brothers that were, generally speaking, estranged. It's rough. Dean has to reconcile the boy he took care of for years after their mother's death with the man he's become.
It's not an easy partnership.
Although Dean is about as badass as they come, he does have his weakness-- his duty, his loyalty, his love for his family. Especially Sam. Time and again, Dean finds himself jumping into the line of fire for Sam. Getting caught by various incarnations of the evil they fight (demon-possessed people, crazies, etc) is basically run-of-the-mill for Dean. At times, he's even been at the mercy of a possessed Sam (ref: 110 Asylum, 214 Born Under a Bad Sign). Dean is always willing to think the best of Sam, and cannot find it in himself to hurt him, despite all evidence to the negative.
What's most compelling about Dean's loyalty is the depths of his vulnerability, seen in the 2 part season 2 finale (ref: 221/222 All Hell Breaks Loose). At the end of part 1, Dean sees Sam die. A knife in his back. Dean. breaks. down. completely. Absolutely broken; nothing to lose. We see his descent into depression and madness. He knows that it's his duty to protect Sam, and he's failed at that in the most final way. There's no comfort for him, and he's wrecked completely. Knowing that it's condemning himself to Hell (literally), he makes a deal with a demon--his soul for Sam to be alive again. He has one year of life in the bargain before the demon will come collecting.
And he makes the deal. He gives his life, despite knowing what awaits him at the other end, just so Sam can live.
Looking at this in comparison with Sam is the most telling.
Sam Winchester: Emo Superhero, or Sam is a lot stronger than he seems
Now, meet Sam Winchester: Sasquatch with a heart of gold. He's lost so much in his life: (1) his mother, 6 months after he was born; (2) his girlfriend Jess, in the first episode; (3) his father, in a deal to save Dean's life; and now he's about to lose Dean. Even being raised the same, Sam wanted a normal life. He went to Stanford for law. He's one smart cookie, the researcher of the pair. He's gotta be the hottest geek ever. Given how much has been taken away from him, and how young he is (generally speaking, he's only 23, whereas Dean is closer to 27), he should be in the midst of a nervous breakdown.
He's anything but weak, though. He's got an entirely different strength than Dean.
Let's count the number of times Sam has had to watch Dean die/almost die.
-111 Scarecrow: Dean nearly gets killed by a scarecrow god.
-112 Faith: Dean is electrocuted and his heart is damaged.
-201 In My Time of Dying: Dean is in a coma after a car accident caused by a demon.
-207 Crossroad Blues: Dean is nearly seduced into trading his soul for John's.
-214 Born Under a Bad Sign: possessed!Sam nearly does Dean in.
-218 Hollywood Babylon: A vengeful spirit goes on a rampage.
-220 What Is and What Should Never Be: Dean is nearly sucked dry by a Djinn.
-309 Malleus Maleficarum: Dean gets cursed by witches.
-311 Mystery Spot: Dean dies. In various ways. Like a Groundhog Day time loop. Hundreds of times.
That last one is the thing that shows me how very strong Sam is emotionally than Dean. Sam sees Dean die over and over, in ways both comical and grotesque. I'm willing to bet that Sam saw himself killing Dean more than once. Granted, time loop. But, the time loop ended. He saw Dean get gunned down. It felt final. It looked final. But instead of searching out a way to bring Dean back from the dead, instead of spiraling into a depression, Sam becomes a harder man than ever. He goes after bigger and badder evils than every before. He becomes a survivor. He goes to get his vengeance against the Trickster because he's lost his brother.
Sam has that same love and loyalty Dean has. It's been ingrained in them from the moment the YED killed their mother. Dean protects Sam. Sam protects Dean. They're one unit, unified against everything and everyone else. Even when we first meet Sam, he's going with Dean to find their father, even though they're estranged. Even though he's made a life for himself. Was he just waiting for Dean to come back for him? Was he tired of normalcy? I don't know.
But it's amazing to note the way the boys, given their upbringing, face death in distinctly different ways. Dean is completely broken when Sam dies. He doesn't remake himself. He doesn't cope with Sam's death at all. Sam, on the other hand, grows. Granted, he grows harder, calloused. He becomes what he sees Dean to be.
I think that's what makes this one of my favorite shows. Because even though the characters fit stereotypes (Dean is hot and people smart, Sam is geeky and book smart), they still have major gaping flaws in their character that make their downfall. Dean would do anything for his brother; and has, to the point of sacrificing his life so his brother could live again. Sam is your anti-typical prodigal son; he left the fold, but came back and can do the job better and harder than was thought. It's absolutely heartrending to see the boys lose so much and still go on fighting. I wonder sometimes if, given how often they have to save each other, that they're not saving the world for themselves alone.
(On that note, the dialogue at the end of What Is and What Should Never Be has me thinking that even harder. Sam tries to comfort Dean, saying that although the wish he'd made wasn't real, he was saving lots of lives. I can hear the weary tone in Dean's voice when he tries to tell Sam that he'd finally found a place where, even if he wasn't entirely happy, everyone he loved was happy. Sam was happy. It's like it didn't matter whether Dean was happy, so long as Sam had it good. And, when they weren't friends, he realized it was wrong. The whole world was wrong because he didn't have Sam.)
Tell me what you think.
For future reference, I do ship J2 and Sam/Dean. But that's not what this is about.
Most of my insight here is coming from comparing and contrasting Faith, All Hell Breaks Loose 1 & 2, What Is And What Should Never Be and Mystery Spot. If you've yet to see these episodes... well, consider this full of spoilers.
Dean Winchester: Woobie... or Dean is more vulnerable than he lets on
Meet Dean Winchester: ladies' man, man's man, man on the prowl. He's good at pretty much everything he does. He can rig up a sophisticated EMF meter from a busted up Walkman. He can keep a '67 Chevy Impala in top condition. He hunts demons and other supernatural creatures that threaten the safety of mankind. He's a smooth talker--able to talk his way into your pants and out of trouble (generally speaking). He's the joking type, the big brother, the soldier.
What we don't always see is how very vulnerable he really is. When we first meet him, we have no idea how often Dean has had to work alone to save the world. Only that John (their dad, for you fresh folks out there.... sheesh) had been gone several days. Presumed KIA, or worse. And we see Dean asking Sam for help for the first time in 2 years of separation. Throughout season 1, we see the cameraderie of brothers that were, generally speaking, estranged. It's rough. Dean has to reconcile the boy he took care of for years after their mother's death with the man he's become.
It's not an easy partnership.
Although Dean is about as badass as they come, he does have his weakness-- his duty, his loyalty, his love for his family. Especially Sam. Time and again, Dean finds himself jumping into the line of fire for Sam. Getting caught by various incarnations of the evil they fight (demon-possessed people, crazies, etc) is basically run-of-the-mill for Dean. At times, he's even been at the mercy of a possessed Sam (ref: 110 Asylum, 214 Born Under a Bad Sign). Dean is always willing to think the best of Sam, and cannot find it in himself to hurt him, despite all evidence to the negative.
What's most compelling about Dean's loyalty is the depths of his vulnerability, seen in the 2 part season 2 finale (ref: 221/222 All Hell Breaks Loose). At the end of part 1, Dean sees Sam die. A knife in his back. Dean. breaks. down. completely. Absolutely broken; nothing to lose. We see his descent into depression and madness. He knows that it's his duty to protect Sam, and he's failed at that in the most final way. There's no comfort for him, and he's wrecked completely. Knowing that it's condemning himself to Hell (literally), he makes a deal with a demon--his soul for Sam to be alive again. He has one year of life in the bargain before the demon will come collecting.
And he makes the deal. He gives his life, despite knowing what awaits him at the other end, just so Sam can live.
Looking at this in comparison with Sam is the most telling.
Sam Winchester: Emo Superhero, or Sam is a lot stronger than he seems
Now, meet Sam Winchester: Sasquatch with a heart of gold. He's lost so much in his life: (1) his mother, 6 months after he was born; (2) his girlfriend Jess, in the first episode; (3) his father, in a deal to save Dean's life; and now he's about to lose Dean. Even being raised the same, Sam wanted a normal life. He went to Stanford for law. He's one smart cookie, the researcher of the pair. He's gotta be the hottest geek ever. Given how much has been taken away from him, and how young he is (generally speaking, he's only 23, whereas Dean is closer to 27), he should be in the midst of a nervous breakdown.
He's anything but weak, though. He's got an entirely different strength than Dean.
Let's count the number of times Sam has had to watch Dean die/almost die.
-111 Scarecrow: Dean nearly gets killed by a scarecrow god.
-112 Faith: Dean is electrocuted and his heart is damaged.
-201 In My Time of Dying: Dean is in a coma after a car accident caused by a demon.
-207 Crossroad Blues: Dean is nearly seduced into trading his soul for John's.
-214 Born Under a Bad Sign: possessed!Sam nearly does Dean in.
-218 Hollywood Babylon: A vengeful spirit goes on a rampage.
-220 What Is and What Should Never Be: Dean is nearly sucked dry by a Djinn.
-309 Malleus Maleficarum: Dean gets cursed by witches.
-311 Mystery Spot: Dean dies. In various ways. Like a Groundhog Day time loop. Hundreds of times.
That last one is the thing that shows me how very strong Sam is emotionally than Dean. Sam sees Dean die over and over, in ways both comical and grotesque. I'm willing to bet that Sam saw himself killing Dean more than once. Granted, time loop. But, the time loop ended. He saw Dean get gunned down. It felt final. It looked final. But instead of searching out a way to bring Dean back from the dead, instead of spiraling into a depression, Sam becomes a harder man than ever. He goes after bigger and badder evils than every before. He becomes a survivor. He goes to get his vengeance against the Trickster because he's lost his brother.
Sam has that same love and loyalty Dean has. It's been ingrained in them from the moment the YED killed their mother. Dean protects Sam. Sam protects Dean. They're one unit, unified against everything and everyone else. Even when we first meet Sam, he's going with Dean to find their father, even though they're estranged. Even though he's made a life for himself. Was he just waiting for Dean to come back for him? Was he tired of normalcy? I don't know.
But it's amazing to note the way the boys, given their upbringing, face death in distinctly different ways. Dean is completely broken when Sam dies. He doesn't remake himself. He doesn't cope with Sam's death at all. Sam, on the other hand, grows. Granted, he grows harder, calloused. He becomes what he sees Dean to be.
I think that's what makes this one of my favorite shows. Because even though the characters fit stereotypes (Dean is hot and people smart, Sam is geeky and book smart), they still have major gaping flaws in their character that make their downfall. Dean would do anything for his brother; and has, to the point of sacrificing his life so his brother could live again. Sam is your anti-typical prodigal son; he left the fold, but came back and can do the job better and harder than was thought. It's absolutely heartrending to see the boys lose so much and still go on fighting. I wonder sometimes if, given how often they have to save each other, that they're not saving the world for themselves alone.
(On that note, the dialogue at the end of What Is and What Should Never Be has me thinking that even harder. Sam tries to comfort Dean, saying that although the wish he'd made wasn't real, he was saving lots of lives. I can hear the weary tone in Dean's voice when he tries to tell Sam that he'd finally found a place where, even if he wasn't entirely happy, everyone he loved was happy. Sam was happy. It's like it didn't matter whether Dean was happy, so long as Sam had it good. And, when they weren't friends, he realized it was wrong. The whole world was wrong because he didn't have Sam.)
Tell me what you think.
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no subject
Date: 2008-03-12 11:27 pm (UTC)This is a beautiful look into the brothers, and such a good interpretation of their characters.
no subject
Date: 2008-03-12 11:34 pm (UTC)*loves back*
no subject
Date: 2008-03-13 04:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-03-13 01:03 pm (UTC)that's the thing. the whole catalyst, for me anyway. because you always hear about WIAWSNB and AHBL and you're like... "Oh Dean!" because he just doesn't cope well with losing sam.
but then you get sam and he doesn't cope well with losing dean either. but he goes polar opposite from dean. so i'm like... wow. ok. so the boys have like... the same upbringing, but they don't react the same to death? and, hey, maybe i should've realized it before because, i mean... sam was still functioning really really well, even after losing jess and his dad. but dean goes nearly all nervous breakdown and stuff (post-IMTOD), whaling on the impala.
so.
heh. yeah.
talk about your signs i should've been an english major--- yesterday, i had an internal conflict as to whether to say moniker or apellation in regards to what basically was: jared is just as hot as jensen.
*facepalm*
no subject
Date: 2008-03-13 01:52 pm (UTC)You're right in that Sam did keep a much leveler head about it than Dean; he was much more John-like (scarier than John, really; I guess Sam and Dean kept him human to a degree), which actually makes me wonder whether Dean's sacrifice wasn't much more Mary-like and if that's what we're going to find out about her.
Either way, interesting Meta comparison here. You wonder whether there isn't any resentment on Dean's part, actually, in that he knows that Sam is kind of everything he wants to be and isn't; cool, logical, and able to detach. You get the feeling that no matter how much Dean wants to give up hunting, he wouldn't ever be able to because he'd never be able to stop thinking about all the people he'd be letting down, he's trapped that way. But Sam's not and Dean knows it, and that's at least part of how he justified making the sacrifice he did. That was actually part of how I interpreted Sam's dream about Bela in DaLD; she's the escape he has made once and maybe wishes he could make again.
no subject
Date: 2008-03-13 02:18 pm (UTC)and you're right, about not being able to give up hunting. we saw in WIAWSNB that he had a life where he didn't have to hunt. and he still defaulted to hunter. he couldn't think that he'd just sit aside and do nothing.
though, it may just be the slasher in me that says that sam doesn't really wanna go for the normal life. or, rather, that he wouldn't make for a very good 'normal' person. maybe there was a little resentment in the beginning about going hunting and leaving jess to die... but i don't recall him making any arguments lately about leaving the hunt. i think he's seeing it's much bigger than him.
mary was the one who sacrificed herself, didn't she? (in... um... 109 Home) to get rid of the poltergeist. which, hey, that could explain a lot about dean's personality in that he spent more time with his mother and therefore has a lot more compassion in his system. (maybe he just hides it under bravado so he doesn't sound like a girl...)
no subject
Date: 2008-03-13 03:52 pm (UTC)I had forgotten about Mary sacrificing herself there, though. And there was even an apology to Sam (did she ignore Dean there? 'Cause that would be a lot like the way John went to Dean and kind of ignored Sam in AHBL2).
And yeah, I totally think Sam's seen the bigger picture since then, but Bela escapes in a different way; she's just indifferent and she sees things the way a tactician or business person would. And it's an indifference born, I think, out of whatever death she caused early on. And I think the hardness you saw in Sam in Mystery Spot is a lot like that, just having his eyes set on one goal and ignoring the collateral. And as much as I think that scared him, you saw where he wavered when Ruby suggested sacrificing the virgin in Jus In Bello. If he could become that person, that person who didn't care who he became, winning this war, saving Dean, it would all be easier, and so it's tempting, which may be why the dream was a sex dream. I think it's interesting the way they've yet to really have Sam interact with Bela on his own outside of that, actually.
no subject
Date: 2008-03-14 01:23 am (UTC)And there's also a point there that I don't really agree with. I think Sam's attitude towards Dean's "ultimate" death was quite similar to Dean's. I went and watched the conversation with Trickster once again, and the first thing you hear Sam say is "Bring him back" followed by "We won't come after you". Seems like it wasn't a quest for vengeance after all.
I wonder sometimes if, given how often they have to save each other, that they're not saving the world for themselves alone.
Yes. I sometimes wonder that too.
no subject
Date: 2008-03-14 01:26 am (UTC)terrible fangirl, i know. didn't rewatch the ep.
Dean Winchester is a major woobie.
Date: 2008-03-14 10:17 pm (UTC)Oh Dean is a major woobie. I mean if u check out all the S1 eps, there's these aside glances and little gestures directed to Sam that Sam is almost completely oblivious of. Like that scene in 1.06 Skin whereby in the first scene itself, we see Dean being jealous and insecure in his standings with regards to Sam's Stanford friends.
What is just disturbing is that Dean's sense of self is defined by Sam. He cannot see himself separately off from the identity SamandDean and so that boy will always be set up for a whole lot of major pain.
Re: Dean Winchester is a major woobie.
Date: 2008-03-14 11:31 pm (UTC)he's got some real abandonment issues, that dean. because his mom dies. sam basically *runs away* to college. his dad constantly left him to take care of sam, and the lays the huge responsibility of sam's BIG SEKRIT on him.... if it isn't bad enough that he's saving the world from supernatural baddies. and then sam dies?? he's been set up for failure from the start. that's gotta be why he won't commit to killing sam if he goes 'all Dark Side' on him.
Re: Dean Winchester is a major woobie.
Date: 2008-03-15 05:01 am (UTC)MY only grievance tho is that the separation and trials and tribulations is so much more articulated than anything the show give us. I can name a no of fics off the top of my head that perfectly illustrates the raw emotions of these boys along with a cracking plot that is just not found on any of the show's epeisodes. I mean SPN got some talented fangirls here. Sometimes I wish Kripke would crib their plot instead of giving us more fanservice. It's not doing anything much for his storyline or mytharc.
Oh my god, I can go on and on huh.